Ehrman repeats a lot of what he argued in the 2006 debate, even on issues where Craig had corrected him. The reasons for thinking the seven letters widely accepted as Pauline are Pauline are a bit complicated, but they have to do with the widespread unity of thought and expression and coherence with a plausible historical situation in the 50s CE. His experience combined with the publishing reputation of Oxford University Press makes The Bible a visually appealing and user-friendly textbook. Don”t suppose there is any chance of your debating Earl Doherty next is there? It was February 2008. why wouldn’t he admit it. a number of traditions can be traced to Aramaic sources. I did not know Santa Claus has an historical kernel. Jesus spoke with Pilate privately in the “What is truth” exchange at his trial. Maybe someone has. And every dime you pay (less than five a week) goes to help the needy. He also teaches eight of The Great Courses’s widely acclaimed Bible and Christianity classes, and has a part in 78 others. I especially appreciated your responses to the questions about Bayes theorem and the historicity of Paul. His argument is not with theism–nobody can ‘win’ the argument over whether or not there’s a God. Believers/proponents of an historical Jesus need the Jesus’ “brother” argument. Who is probably better documented than most religious leaders in ancient history. Was Jesus Born in Bethlehem? Nobody has ‘proven’ all life on earth is the result of evolution as described by Darwin. One day, perhaps, he will write a major book on this subject. Well, I have to admit, he can be a bit aggravating. This question is not directly related to the Mythicist issue, but let us suppose that Jesus did exist, then my question relates to the languages they spoke at that time. He us perfectly willing to admit he could be wrong – I greatly admire this. Thanks. This is a beginner’s guide to comprehend Ehrman, and the scholarly response from Christian apologists to debunk his attacks against Historic Christianity. -James was no biological brother of Jesus. 2. Paul received instructions or information from Christ through visions from Christ. Additionally, he already had several public debates under his belt. Pure speculation, based on wishful thinking I’m afraid! But he did basically argue in this debate that we can prove some content of the Gospels goes back to Aramaic sources which are therefore contemporary eyewitness sources. To share this article with your friends, use any of the social share buttons on our site, or simply copy the link below. And the same could be said for stories told all over the world, because when you get right down to it, we’re all telling the same stories. He wants to avoid facing that by calling it uncivil to prove he lied and made mistakes. There is no clear indication he could have spoken Aramaic, so yes, apart from having a translator it’s hard ot know how he would have communicated with the Aramaic-speaking apostles. By all accounts Ehrman decidedly won the debate. Today I will go into a full analysis (or what I think of as full at least) of the debate, with some (hopefully constructive) criticism on both sides and my two cents… Murdock. Traditional Judaism then (and now) does not like translations very much, though it was more accepting of Aramaic (such as the Onkelos) than of Greek (ie, the LXX). Paul was a Greek-speaking Jew. Why did I choose to face this giant? Comments posted must be limited to 200 words or less. Maybe I’m overthinking this word. And there is nothing in the Zoroastrian story that resembles the gospel narrative in any but the most superficial symbolic way. Christ himself! For example, Mark 5:41 He took her by the hand and said to her, “Talitha koum!” (which means “Little girl, I say to you, get up!”). It was February 2008. I’ve just read one book of hers (The great angel book), and don’t remember it well enough offhand to give a sustained critique. So did Muhammad. to establish Paul’s usage of archon independent of the passage about Christ having been crucified by the rulers (archons) of this age. 1. But judge not lest ye be judged. That is strange, because being the biological brother of Jesus would obviously have carried high status and a be a worthy designation. The opening salvo this year comes courtesy of the indefatigable Bart Ehrman. He was an established scholar, an award-winning professor at a prominent university, and a New York Times best-selling author. Sorry — I think I misunderstood the question. might have been interesting, but I still believe in the existence of Christ. He didn’t seem to understand Bart’s position when making the Clark Kent analogy. Are there any non-disputed passages in Paul’s 7 letters that use archon in a way that cannot be taken to mean heavenly principalities? Later, after doing the research, I realized it really was improbable. I kept meaning to pay fhe $5 but it’s free now. -You seem to quote Acts. So unless he appeared as a dead corpse, then I should think he means that he appeared alive, again, afterward. My Take on the Debate Between Bart Ehrman and Daniel Wallace Finally the long awaited debate between two able textual critics, Bart Ehrman and Daniel Wallace took place at SMU campus in Dallas. Last night I gave you a little teaser about the debate I attended between Kyle Butt and Dr. Bart Ehrman. -2 Peter 1:16 states that there were some who claimed Jesus to be a myth. Here are some of things he claimed, “Ehrman even admitted in this debate that some historical persons are invented in the Gospels (e.g. No, I”ve never applied a Jungian analysis to the early Christian traditions. “Jesus. But there’s an awful lot we don’t know about how the Roman system operated. For his speaking fees and scheduling possibilities, please contact him directly using the contact form by access of the button on the left. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. That’s it in a nutshell. How do we know it wasn’t John the Baptist who said all those things? Thank you for returning to my favorite subject. So Join! Reply. I listened to a debate between Bart Ehrman and Mike Licona where Ehrman cited what he considered to be Bible contradictions and in several cases, Licona seemed to agree with him. Dr. Bart Ehrman’s works could rattle the faith of naïve Christians. Not because the authors of the gospels were copying off somebody else’s paper. I don’t think we know what would have happened at Jesus’ trial before Pilate. No, I think that is a misunderstanding of the verse. Approximately 1,500 people attended the event live, and an estimated 70-80 thousand people viewed the debate on-line or via television on the Gospel Broadcasting Network. – Pre-debate discussed on Bart Ehrman’s Foundation Blog: https://ehrmanblog.org/did-jesus-exist-my-debate-with-robert-price/ Jesus went to John to be baptized because he wanted his sins to be forgiven. Next, Paul goes into the chronology of Christ visions translated as “appearances”. But isn’t Romans 13:1-7 widely thought to be a later interpolation? Given how unusual Jesus’ life had been, it’s possible what happened to his body after his crucifixion was also unconventional (though not supernatural), and that this helped create the legends that came to surround his passing. He wants to avoid facing that by calling it uncivil to prove he lied and made mistakes. Was The Messiah Supposed to Be Born of a Virgin? Each blog member is allowed to make 2 comments a day. Some issues are central, while others are barely peripheral. Professor Ehrman presented a logical synopsis of how Jesus actually did exist. Already a CT subscriber? But down inside, we’re all the same flawed fallible frightened creatures, seeking transcendence over our tiny limited lives. UNC Chapel Hill Professor Bart Ehrman has made quite a name for himself as a critic of the New Testament documents. Do you know the author? If there was no Jesus of Nazareth, then Christianity as a theological system will be wholly undone. As for the other side of the argument, Apostle Paul is a conundrum. So Join! Pilate almost certainly did not speak Aramaic. But not the underlying fact. Do Christians Have to Believe in the Virgin Birth? On April 4, 2014 I debated Dr. Bart Ehrman on the campus of the University of North Alabama in Florence, Alabama. It lays out the mythical beliefs Paul proclaimed clearly. If this sounds weird and different – you’re right! —Bart Ehrman from our debate. Ehrman is a formidable debate opponent for many reasons, not least the aggressive rudeness that causes him to interrupt Williams not once but three times during Williams’ designated time for closing remarks. Of course “brother” has a double meaning, depending on context, literally or figuratively, today and 2000 years ago. The differences in the stories come from the fact that we’ve had different experiences, different cultures. Even Mark Goodacre and Craig Evans couldn’t do that; especially Evans who performed terribly at the debate. A Blog Fundraiser. Rom 8:14, 8:23 and 8:29. Yes, the Greek is ambiguous. Roberts knew about my apologetics work and had asked me if I might be interested in doing a public debate. What are your thoughts on the languages the participants in the NT drama used to communicate to such diverse groups of people? But even if it were, you don’t establish whether a text is original based on quotations of church fathers; they simply quoted whatever was relevant to what they were talking about. As many of you know, this past October I had a public debate with Robert Price on the question of whether Jesus actually existed. Vs 3: “For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received:…”. By all accounts Ehrman decidedly won the debate. Jesus is the core of Christianity. The Dark Side of the Bart Ehrman-Robert Price Debate. Great simple answer – What you are thinking about? Some of it seems to be innate to all humans. Why would anyone say somethhing like, so and so “even admits” something when that something is something that everyone thinks? I'd never debate Ehrman (whom I like), but not for the reasons you won't debate me (you'll notice the difference is I don't just disparage Bart left and right with insults). While most fair-minded individuals would have to admit that your case for the historicity of Jesus is far more compelling than Price’s (or anyone else’) case for mythicism, it still seems to me that most historicists (including you) still have a strong tendency to blur the distinction between what is plausible and what is probable. The only Jesus Christ that Paul knows is the one he’d seen in visions and somehow read about in scripture – as did everyone else who Paul writes about. Well I watched this in the hope of hearing some evidence for the mythicist view. Question: you use Romans 13:1ff. Still, some It should be very easy. For those who don't know, Ehrman is something of a celebrity sceptic in the United States. Ehrman was talking about the facts of what we know. That’s what I thought, just wanted to confer with the foremost text critic in the world! Me neither. Please adjust gear icon for 720p High-Definition: I’m glad to hear that the debate ended up being a nice experience. in Gal 2:9, 2:12 and 1 Cor 15:7 he is just James. Well, he explicitly says Jesus first died and “then” he appeared. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. If you would like to ask a question, simply ask it in your comment. I appreciate your thoughts, but even the myth of Santa Claus has a historical kernel. Crazy. Have something to add about this? Richard Carrier does what accuses the interpreters of Tacito and Suetonius to do, manipulating the data much more than what is explicitly there. Please post respectful comments even when you have strong opinions. On April 4, 2014 I debated Dr. Bart Ehrman on the campus of the University of North Alabama in Florence, Alabama. I told him I’d want to debate Ehrman, and Roberts set it up. How many years do you want to spend defending a silly pointless idea that most fundamentalist Christians never give a solitary waking thought? I recently had an experience with several atheists which, to my surprise, made me realize that some atheists have the same narrow, closed mindedness and dogmatic certainty that I have spent decades trying to escape in Fundamentalists. He has moved even further to the possibility of Jesus existence after reading “ Creating Christ” a recent book by James S Valiant and Fahey which takes Joseph Atwells position that The Flavian emporers wallpapered over the rebel Christian Jews and made Jesus a Roman law abider. I thought that was over the top until I read about an even bigger conspiracy theorist than him–Robert Eisenman. You can, if you want, imagine a scenario in which Jesus was given some kind of decent burial. Bart, do you ever bring up Jungian Archetypes and the ‘monomyth’ in these discussions? He actually made a good argument for that position, but I still disagree with it. It seems clear that Ehrman’s commentary is predicated on the thesis that these noncanonical texts were discriminated against in something of a patristic conspiracy. Three women have come forward with additional allegations against the late Christian apologist. In the meantime, he offers an excellent online course , based partly on Malcom Murray’s book The Atheist’s Primer. It is likely that there in 1 Co 9.5 there are no other believers, but perhaps even “brothers”, of blood, as mentioned in the gospels that Jesus had. – Discussion of debate by Matt Dillahunty, Dr. Richard Carrier, David Fitzgerald and Kristyn Whitaker Hood join hosts Sean Fracek and Jason Lawson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGBouQbYpqM Professor Bart Ehrman is the author of more than twenty books and has made appearances in various news outlets on TV and in magazines. Review of Bart Ehrman's Lost Christianities by R.A. Baker Probably due to an undercurrent of anti-Catholic sentiment in the United States that began with the Puritans and can still be found among American Protestant fundamentalists, there remains a dearth of knowledge and understanding of early Christianity. “For years I’ve been asked by people to debate a mythicist; I’ve always resisted, in part because I’ve thought that by doing so I would lend credibility to their view, which, in my judgment, is not credible”. 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